So, a few days ago, Scottie Pippen pops out a new blog: "Can't Compare MJ and Kobe."

The piece was written in response to Kobe's 81-point performance.  I thought Pip's piece was really intriguing.  While a lot of people are taking it as a snipe against Kobe in an effort to hold Jordan above him, I don't think that's it whatsoever.

I hold the opinion that Jordan was a superior player, so that colors my view, but if you look through the blog, Pip says stuff like "Kobe's the closest thing to MJ" and "Kobe's more polished than anyone else."

That's not the talk of a man who is bitter about Kobe's success; he's respecting his talent but you've got to understand that Jordan dominated everyone and totally lowered the view of every other guard and player in the league while he was playing for Chicago. People talk a lot about how Mitch Richmond, Clyde Drexler, Reggie Miller and others weren't the same kind of competition that Kobe has to face today, without realizing that they were pretty darn good themselves. Especially with the new rules on the perimeter and the premium on jump-shooters because of the zone rules; you don't think guys like Glen Rice, Steve Smith, Mitch Richmond and so forth would thrive in the modern league? I do. They would be dominant. And if you go as far back as the mid-80s when Jordan hit the league, Dr. J had a pair of 20+ ppg years in Jordan's first two years, and George Gervin had one as well (and scored 16 ppg for the Bulls while Jordan healed his foot).

There was talent of all kinds at his position. Clyde Drexler is commonly compared to Kobe Bryant (with irritating frequency) on the Comparisons Board as that 20/6/6 type player. He may not have been the scorer Kobe is, with the exception of a couple of years around the time he led the Blazers into the Finals, but he was still a difficult player. You've also got to consider the lack of depth on modern teams, right? Nowadays, GMs see a star guard and figure he can get the team into the playoffs with crap around him, because T-Mac did it in Orlando for several years, etc. There was more talent to go to with those guys, so they didn't always have to score as much.

Guards in the Modern Era

The best guards in the modern era (from a 2-guard POV and of at least 6'5 in height)? Tracy McGrady, Kobe Bryant, Vince Carter, Ray Allen and that's it.

Ray Allen is like a poor-man's Mitch Richmond and can get written off. That leaves two guards in the league who are anything resembling Jordan. One of them can get written off, representing Jordan, the other as his competition. Clyde Drexler fills the other role in the earlier era.

OK, you want to add in Jason Richardson and Michael Redd? Be my guest, but they aren't remotely in Kobe Bryant?s class and everyone knows it. You can add in Joe Johnson because he's scoring a lot this season but he's not close either. Neither is Ricky Davis.  Michael Redd certainly doesn't match up to Kobe.  Last year in his two games against L.A., Redd posted 6 and 8 points, on 1-8 and 3-13 shooting.  Kobe dogged him both games and the Lakers won both games as well.  

Dwyane Wade? 6'4, he's a small scoring guard... Kind of like most of the competition that Jordan faced. How about that, eh?

Jordan's Competition

I never really got that "Jordan never faced as much competition" line, because it's really quite silly.  

In the 80?s and 90?s, small guards and SF?s were the dominant perimeter players... and in the late 80s and 90s there were far more talented big men who knew what they were doing on the low block... and weren't impeded by zone defenses (though the physical style of play was, as Pip suggested, a significant factor).

Who am I talking about?

Small Forwards and Little Guards in Jordan's Era

Dominique Wilkins, Larry Bird, Adrien Dantley, Alex English, World B. Free, Glen Rice, Mark Aguirre, Kiki Vandeweghe, Tim Hardaway, Kevin Johnson, Isiah Thomas, Chris Mullin, Jeff Hornacek, Jamaal Wilkes, Jamal Mashburn, Steve Smith, Tom Chambers, etc.

And this isn't even to mention guys like John Starks who had three or four 17+ ppg seasons in the early 90s. Anthony Mason had some good years in Charlotte as well.

Then there were big guys, guys like Derrick Coleman, Christian Laettner (yeah, shaggy haired dude used to be a 17 and 8 player...), Danny Manning...  You could look at Charles Barkley as a big man as well, given that he was a PF.  

Now, pause and consider that I'm missing at least two dozen other players who were serious scorers (of the 18+ ppg variety) who would have presented a threat.  Guys like Bernard King, for example.  

So while Jordan's greatest competition at shooting guard may have been Clyde Drexler, there were plenty of perimeter players with whom Jordan had to contend. Jordan had to chase those other players around while he scored and his teams had to deal with them as well.  Technically speaking, when Jordan came into the league, he was looked at as a prospective small forward because of his height.  He was, at the time, compared to Dr. J.  

Kobe's greatest competition (since Jordan retired the second time) has been T-Mac, realistically. Who else challenges Kobe from the 2-guard spot more than McGrady? Not a soul and now that's moot, as T-Mac's a small forward in Houston.

Small Forwards in the Modern Era

Where's the damage coming from? Small forwards are still in larger abundance than 2-guards in terms of big-time scorers. Paul Pierce, Lebron James, Carmelo Anthony, Tracy McGrady (where he's properly categorized)...

I suppose you could include Corey Maggette but he, like Jason Richardson et al, doesn't really challenge Kobe at the same level as a guy like McGrady does. Neither does Richard Jefferson.

Grant Hill's another guy who, despite his age and injury problems, is a significant presence when he's healthy. He was more so back in Jordan's day though, or at least in the second half of Jordan's day. When Hill was dropping 20, 10 and 7 in his second season, Jordan was winning his fourth title and kind of laughing because Detroit was no longer the impediment it had been in his first run in the league.

Shawn Marion is definitely a wicked talent. Rashard Lewis is another nasty player. Wally Z is a thought, he's scoring 20 ppg or so, but he might fall into the Jason Richardson-type of category.

Realistically, the only guys on that list I should include are Pierce, Lebron, 'Melo, T-Mac and Shawn Marion; Rashard Lewis and Wally Z aren't serious competition to Kobe Bryant.

Small Scoring Guards in the Modern League

Now, small scoring guards in the modern league? Kirk Hinrich, Ben Gordon, Jason Terry, Chauncey Billups, Baron Davis, Sam Cassell, Dwyane Wade, Chris Paul, Stephon Marbury, Steve Francis, Allen Iverson, Steve Nash kind of counts (though only technically this year; in the spirit of this comparison, he doesn't really belong... Mike Bibby sits in the same boat and I don't believe Tony Parker is a 20 ppg scorer without the modern perimeter defense rules, though power to him for exploiting them), Mike James fits in here and who else? Gilbert Arenas is a nasty scorer, just below Kobe, Lebron and AI in the scoring race this year and just ahead of T-Mac and Wade.

Big Men in the 80s and 90s

So there really isn't a terrific abundance of big guards who can score... What we have instead are a large number of scoring small forwards and a terrific abundance of small scoring guards. Now why does that sound familiar? Oh right, because it's exactly the same as what was going on in MJ's era, only there are MORE tiny scoring machines because there's a void in the frontcourt where Jordan was facing Dream, Ewing, Zo, a young Shaq (later in his career), Ralph Sampson, the Admiral, etc.

And let's not forget about the other guys, guys who weren't necessarily as dominant as the legends but who were not to be looked down upon. Who am I talking about?

Brad Daugherty, Rony Seikaly, Rik Smits, Arvydas Sabonis, Dikembe Mutombo, Vlade Divac, Robert Parish and Bill Laimbeer. The center position was a totally different animal then versus now. I don't mean to insult guys like Brad Miller or even young guys like Zaza Pachulia who are starting to get it but the level of talent then was significantly higher than it is now. We've got a great abundance of PF's now, but then versus now? McHale, Malone, Barkley, etc, etc. Talent at the 4 matches up nicely, perhaps even in favor of those guys but that's another argument.

Jordan would have also faced Kareem, Moses Malone and some other significant 80?s talent in the earliest parts of his career.

So what does it all mean? If Jordan faced the same arrangement of talent (lots of little scorers, lots of small forwards and an abundance of talented big men) as Kobe does minus the talent up front, what might the difference be, in terms of the era?

Well, for one thing, it would have been harder to score at the rim. Nevermind that the refs give touch fouls to anyone playing defense in the modern era and taking into account the fact that zones do make it harder for a player to get the space he needs to get to the rim, how much more difficult would it be if almost EVERY night, you ran into a Mark Eaton, a Hakeem Olajuwon, a Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, a Dikembe Mutombo, etc? The abundance of shot-blocking/altering talent that was in the league in Jordan's time was higher... nevermind that there isn't a team in the league that played D like the Pistons of the late 80s/early 90s or Riley's Knicks and Heat. It's just not allowed anymore. Jordan handled them in the playoffs on a yearly basis during the Bulls dynasty.

If nothing else, because Jordan proved he could "climb Mount Mutombo" and that he could score on Utah during Eaton's career quite well, it would have required all kinds of extra energy to do that scoring (more so than otherwise).

To the Point

Pip's right, Kobe probably never would have scored 81 points back in the 80?s.

Why? Well for one thing, taking that many shots is never a good thing. Kobe himself acknowledges that he doesn't want to be doing it that often and said he's looking forward to getting back to where he didn't have to take 30+ shots a night for the Lakers to win.

You'll notice that when Jordan was scoring 37 ppg, the Bulls won 40 games and got swept out of the first round.

Second, there were many more competent players in the league back then. That means that Kobe's team, as it exists now, wouldn't have really existed. Jordan played on some bad teams but their lack of talent was different; it was more a lack of talent relative to the major contenders in the league.

In 86-87, Jordan had Charles Oakley (15 and 13), John Paxson (11 and 6) and an array of semi-competent role players who could rebound and pass a bit, some who could score, etc. It wasn't that bad of a team.

That team, in the modern era? Well, first of all, Jordan would've been over 40 ppg. He'd have gotten to the line more and been able to get easier looks at the basket more often because of the hand-checking rules. So their offense would have been ridiculous. Oakley would have been pretty nasty as a rebounder, though his defense would have been tempered by the new rules. Still, he'd have benefited from Jordan's dribble-penetration and nailed 15-footers and put-backs all game long.

And David Corzine, who was no stud but still posted 8/7/3 and who had been a pretty solid player before he turned 30, would have been a significant component.

The team wasn't as bad as its record; it was just not as talented as the rest of the league, despite Jordan's better efforts. The point? With that kind of team, the opportunity to take 40+ shots really doesn't come up ALL that often. You get help eventually and sometimes it's just detrimental.

Kobe versus Jordan

Kobe's having a similar season to what MJ did back in 86-87. He's posting 36 ppg, about 6 rpg and about 4 apg. He's shooting about 45% from the floor. He's getting to the line about 11 times a game.

Jordan posted 37/5/5 on 48% and shot a hair better from the foul line (like 2%, nothing huge). He got to the line about 12 times per game.

Similar season.

You know, I started this whole article thinking that the comparison just wasn't there but when you really look at it, Kobe's having a season that's pretty comparable to Jordan's, though Jordan was a bit more effective at getting to the line, and Kobe's working the 3 a lot more, which might partially account for the ~ 3% difference in FG%.

Kobe has the benefit of lesser competition at the 5-spot and easier rules for perimeter players who are trying to penetrate and Jordan had the benefit of a faster-paced game and a better team (I'd take the 86-87 Bulls over the current Lakers).  Still, what Pippen said in his article cannot be ignored; the defensive rules in the modern era are kind of appalling; it's so much easier for players to get into the lane from the wing now, way more so than back in the 80?s.  That's something that modern players have easier than guys from days past had.  

What else is different?  Well, it's important to note that teams ran a lot more but really, the difference in pace is accounted for by the weak perimeter defense rules.  As I mentioned before, Pip's point is well-received.  When he said that he'd have fouled out guarding Magic in the '91 Finals basically on the first trip up the floor, he wasn't lying. Refs are exceedingly touchy nowadays about any kind of contact beyond the foul line, especially outside the three-point arc.  

Jordan certainly faced more talented teams and I do have to say that I'm of the opinion that MJ was just being nice when he said it'd be harder in the modern era with the zone defense. A 40 year-old Jordan shot almost 45% while shooting nothing but mid-range Js, imagine what a 27 year-old MJ would do to the league?

Jordan was faster than Kobe when he was the same age, significantly faster. Enough so that he routinely guarded those little guys while Pip guarded the SF's until the second three-peat, when Jordan was slowing down in his early 30s.

The player closest to Jordan is Dwyane Wade, in terms of style. Young Jordan, anyway. He's the guy who stands at the top of the circle, says "I want to be at the rim now" and is dunking before you realize he made a move. Kobe isn't like that, Kobe's closer to Old Jordan (and I mean the Old Bull, not Jordan on the Wizards). He's got the height and the bulk, he's got a pretty solid post game but he still drives a lot, etc. He's got a better jumper than Wade or the very young Jordan, though young MJ's mid-range game is oft-underrated on RealGM?s boards.

Those two are like the two sides of Jordan. Wade's got the explosiveness; Kobe's got the size, the experience and the broader array of offensive skills. It's like Pip said himself, Kobe's the most polished offensive wing player in the league, closest to MJ. And this season proves it.

But what's lacking between the two? Well, MJ had better shot selection (which partially accounts for his higher FG%) and more athletic ability (which accounts for a lot of the rest).

And, because Jordan's career is over, you can see the whole picture. Jordan had a period where he matured under the coaching of Phil Jackson (it took a while though) and learned how to be a team player. He also had Scottie Pippen, something Kobe lacks.

So you go back to Scottie's comment where he says you can't compare them and you can't, after a certain point. They're very similar in many respects but Kobe hasn't completed the transition to the more mature player that Jordan became and he's not got the same kind of talent around him, either. There's no saying that Jordan did what he did because of the talent around him, though, because he did his thing for several years before Scottie there. He needed talent to win, just like every other player in the league.

On Three-Point Shooting, Kobe and MJ

Much is made of Kobe's three-point shooting and I think it is irrelevant. Jordan hit the threes he needed to. He had near perfect form on his shot but he didn't take 3?s all that often and, consequently, never got into a 3-point shooting rhythm. He had some seasons where he shot better than Kobe. As a point of reference, in pretty much every season he took over 100 threes, he shot 35% or better.

Let's have a look. His first season with 100+ shots from downtown was 89-90, in which he shot 37.6%. Next, 91-92. He took 100 shots and made 27, so that was a bad year. 92-93, he shot 35% on 230 shots.

42.7% and 37.4% in 95-96 and 96-97 followed by 23.8% in his last year (though he took significantly fewer shots in 97-98, 126 versus 297 and 260).

OK, a revised statement: In the four seasons he took 200 threes or more, he took 1032 threes total and hit 395 of them, which is 38.3%.

He took 1,778 threes in his entire career, so you'll notice that almost 60% of his threes taken came in those years. In fairness, in two of those years (95-96 and 96-97, IIRC), the line was pulled in to about 21 feet or so, so they are outliers of a sort, but the fact remains that Jordan didn't shoot a stunning number of threes. When he did, they were usually at the end of the shot clock or at the end of games and he usually made them. And then there was the Portland game of course.

The conclusion is that it really wasn't his game to take those shots and he STILL managed to score more than Kobe and do so at a higher percentage. The three is not any grand point in Kobe's favor. If Jordan (who took about 1.65 threes per game on his career) took as many threes as Kobe does (3.11 per game and he's already taken 2,072 threes in his career), he'd have hit them more often. He focused on mid-range Js and getting to the rim, or posting up.

A lot of people talk about shooting as something that's in Kobe's favor.  I showed above a little of the misconception around Jordan's shooting ability but while cruising the forums, one of the fellows brought up a comment made in 90-91 in Sports Illustrated following his winning their "Man of the Year" award:

"Jordan is now a better shooter than Bird-- not from long range, certainly, but from 21 feet and in."

The Conclusion

MJ is His Airness because he did what he did in the latter half of the Golden Era of basketball and because he embarrassed all comers. Kobe doesn't do that. Jordan, even before Pip got there, routinely annihilated his competition and made it clear that he was, far and away, the most exciting new talent in the league. Magic, Bird (and to a lesser extent, Isiah Thomas) were still the top dogs until Jordan started to win in the postseason but once Jordan and the Bulls got through Cleveland and Pip arrived, it was over.

He had it tougher on the inside because, zone or not, everyone and his mom knew that Dikembe Mutombo was going to camp in the lane and try to swat your shot. Or Mark Eaton, or Dream, etc, etc, ad nauseaum. He faced more talented teams on a more frequent basis and he utterly vanquished everyone.

So Kobe right now isn't comparable to Jordan, as in not on the same level.

There is, however, a but:

Kobe is having a season right now that's comparable to one of Jordan's filthiest seasons ever. If he follows the progression Jordan did under Phil Jackson and the Lakers can get some talent around him, it is within the realm of possibility that Kobe could make this a MUCH tougher comparison. Right now, Jordan's holding a royal flush and Kobe's calling with pocket twos, if you want a poker analogy but maybe Kobe will get it back next game. If Kobe can win without Shaq, as the clear leader of the team and through buying into the team concept (except where necessary, as the game against Toronto exemplified, or the many times Jordan told Phil Jackson to stuff his out-of-bounds play and just got the ball and scored), then he can seriously challenge Jordan.

Again, big Jordan fan, skeptical of Kobe's ability to do this but the possibility is there.

There's a big problem in directly comparing players who have retired to players who haven't because the book isn't finished yet. Jordan's career ended with him as arguably the greatest player in the history of the league and to this point, Kobe hasn't done anything to challenge that. Nothing. He's got achievements, he's got titles, but he's not got the kind of legacy or reputation around the league that Jordan had.

Jordan was inarguably the best player in the league for a huge chunk of his career. Kobe has been arguably the best player in the league. In terms of achievements, Jordan has twice as many titles, 5 MVPs to 0, a DPOY that Kobe doesn't have, etc, etc, etc.

Kobe has lived in Shaq's shadow a bit and probably deserved at least one of those Finals MVPs but even 1 to 6 is still not a real challenge to the legacy that MJ left.

Still though, when did Jordan leave that legacy? Jordan won his first title when he was 27 (and his second MVP the same year) and would go onto play another 8 years (though he took like 5 and a half years off, all told), so Kobe's got plenty of time. Pip didn't even hit the league until 87-88, Jordan's fourth season (and third full season) and didn't start making a huge impact until a year after that.

So there's nothing if not time for Kobe. He's in his prime, he's got the right kind of coach, in fact the SAME coach MJ had, he just needs the talent and the mentality. He's similarly competitive, similarly committed to both ends of the floor, he just needs to do what MJ did and learn how to be a team player... something MJ didn't really do until he was about the same age anyway.

If Kobe finishes the season averaging 36/6/4 as he is now, Kobe fans can legitimately claim that he's achieved something Jordan-esque (and he'll probably win the MVP and is almost guaranteed to do so if the Lakers make the playoffs). After that though, individual accolades become secondary and Kobe vs. Jordan becomes all about what Kobe can do with the Lakers after the regular season ends.

Once Kobe starts getting deep playoff runs on a team where he's the top dog, THEN he can be legitimately compared to Jordan, or at least certain stretches of Jordan's career. Until then, the disparity in the era differences and the talent surrounding the players is too much for this comparison to work.

On Methods of Comparisons

You can't really compare these two guys until their careers are done. Kobe is entering into the era in which Jordan firmly established himself as the best in the league and potentially the best in the game. He had his individual dominance through the latter half of the 80s and that's really the stage Kobe is still in now.

But until Kobe retires, or at least until Kobe has a reasonably talented and deep team for a few years, there IS no comparison to Jordan the Legend, only Jordan the Young Bull.

You can absolutely directly compare Jordan from 84-85 to 89-90 and see a lot of parallels. It's been said before, Bill Simmons called Kobe "Bad Jordan" and he was BANG on, it was the most apt comparison I've heard yet.

But from 90-91 on, Jordan lifted his game to a totally different level... and so did Pippen, Ho Grant and all the rest of the Bulls (in their myriad of roster arrangements as they changed from year to year). Consequently, you can't compare Kobe to Jordan during the dynasty years. Kobe's Lakers don't have the talent or cohesiveness of the Bulls and he doesn't have a second man anything like Pippen in terms of impact.

There is no opportunity to compare Kobe to the legacy MJ left, only to MJ at a similar stage in his career. Kobe right now is most comparable to the Jordan of 86-87, statistically and in terms of mentality. That would put him about 3 or 4 years behind Jordan in terms of the learning curve... which is a number that seems familiar, yes? That's around the number of years in which Kobe and Shaq seriously competed for (and won) titles. From 99-00 to 03-04, Kobe's growth as an individual was retarded a little bit by the presence of Shaq and his institution as "The Man" on the Lakers.

It's only in this fashion that Kobe can be compared to Jordan... at least until he gets some talent and starts making noise in the playoffs. Until then, there IS no comparison, because Jordan is one of the greatest postseason performers in the history of the league. Kobe's done some great things, true, but Jordan's done more and until Kobe's teammates and mentality match Jordan's, Jordan will always be unquestionably the superior player. I'm not dumping on Kobe, just trying to show why the comparison to Jordan's legacy has no merit, only to a specific stretch of Jordan's career.

To say that Kobe compares favorably with MJ during the 86-87 is basically to say he with reasonable favor to a guy Chuck Daly once said was embarrassing the league. He's not on the same level, true, but still, I agree that he's certainly a lot closer than anyone else has ever come.

Tyler Sherkin may be reached at TSherkin@gmail.com