What If Woelful's Right?

[europa]

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How old was Kukoc when he entered the NBA?

25

[paulpressey25]

-= The fact that Ilhan compared Gallinari to his favorite player means he must be pretty good.

I think his comments were more a rip on Galinari in comparison to Kukoc......

[Nowak008]

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I think his comments were more a rip on Galinari in comparison to Kukoc......

Yea probably. Its hard to compare them though because of the competition in the Euro leagues have gotten so much better.

[Simulack]

Everyone can make an argument that moving Redd right now is in the team's best interest because of the size and length of his contract. I personally believe he's gone.....

However, what many here underestimate is Redd's ability to put "extreme" offensive pressure on the guy guarding him, forcing the defender to use a disproportionate amount of energy on the defensive end of the floor.

Meh, people thought the same thing about Big Dog but trading him for a lottery pick and Kukoc worked out pretty well. Robinson had another couple of years of putting up meaningless numbers on lottery teams before tailing off rapidly and ending up out of the league. Meanwhile we got Ford who had a few solid years and ended up being a decent trade chip.

Like Big Dog most of his career, Redd's ability to put "extreme" offensive pressure on a team has never translated into any actual team success. Like Big Dog, his value is only going to go down from here.

Moving him for a lottery pick would be as much of a no-brainer as there is.

[Chapter29]

Redd and his ability to put offensive pressure on a player and team is valuable. Just because we haven't seen much success with Redd as our starting SG doesn't mean success cannot be had with him. This is a team sport. We just need the right pieces around him to make him successful. Examples being Skiles is one of those pieces and Mo is not.

[bango_the_buck]

Clippers:
Redd for #7, Mobley, Tim Thomas and/or Brevin Knight.
Upside- we have Redd's short term replacement and in a year from now Mobley, Simmons and TT's contracts would be 27 mil worth of expirings. Also #7 and #8.
Downside- We have to take TT back.

How about a three-way trade with Minnesota?

Bucks trade: Redd, CV
Bucks get: #3 (Mayo), Mobley, TT, Madsen

Clippers trade: #7 (Lopez), Mobley, TT
Clippers get: Redd

T-Wolves trade: #3 (Mayo), Madsen
T-Wolves get: #7 (Lopez), CV

Then at #8 we could address the SF position (Alexander, Randolph, or Gallinari).

Mo/Sessions/Bell
Mayo/Mobley/Mason
Alexander/Simmons/Ersan
Yi/TT/Madsen
Bogut/Gadz/2nd

[Simulack]

This is a team sport.

Indeed and that is why so many around here want Redd traded.

No one is claiming success couldn't be had with Redd "if we had the right pieces around him": success can be had with just about ANY shooting guard if the other guys around him are good enough. That statement is meaningless as it applies to every starting SG in the NBA. However many think the idea of constructing a team by putting pieces around a SG only somewhat above average is silly. There's also of course the point that his very contract makes it difficult to add the type of pieces we need.

Sure, his scoring is valuable. Like I said, Big Dog's scoring was valuable too. Valuable enough for us to be able to get a lottery pick and Kukoc for him after 8 seasons of great stats. I hope Redd can be as valuable to us after his 8 seasons in Milwaukee.

[midranger]

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Indeed and that is why so many around here want Redd traded.

No one is claiming success couldn't be had with Redd "if we had the right pieces around him": success can be had with just about ANY shooting guard if the other guys around him are good enough. That statement is meaningless as it applies to every starting SG in the NBA. However many think the idea of constructing a team by putting pieces around a SG only somewhat above average strikes us as silly. There's also of course the point that his very contract makes it difficult to add the type of pieces we need.

Sure, his scoring is valuable. Like I said, Big Dog's scoring was valuable too. Valuable enough for us to be able to get a lottery pick and Kukoc for him after 8 seasons of great stats. I hope Redd can be as valuable to us after his 8 seasons in Milwaukee.

Thank you.

[DanoMac]

The one thing that really separates Gordon and Redd with me is the explosiveness. Gordon was the 3rd fastest player at the measurements, and he's shown repeatedly that he can get to the lane at will. Whethere he's fouled or he has a huge dunk, he makes an impact. Redd injures himself on wide open breakaway dunks with the game out of reach.

This is what also separates Gordon and Westbrook with me. Gordon just seems like a more talented Westbrook. Don't get me wrong, if Gordon's gone by the time we pick, the guy I want is Westbrook, but Gordon already has the NBA range with the explosiveness. Not to mention his superb wingspan which will really help on defense.

I think Gordon is as good as gone by 8, but I can dream.

[htr]

This is what separates Westbrook and Gordon:

There are many great athletes in this year

[htr]

Michael Flowers would own Russell Westbrook. JK

[Chapter29]

Indeed and that is why so many around here want Redd traded.

No one is claiming success couldn't be had with Redd "if we had the right pieces around him": success can be had with just about ANY shooting guard if the other guys around him are good enough. That statement is meaningless as it applies to every starting SG in the NBA. However many think the idea of constructing a team by putting pieces around a SG only somewhat above average is silly. There's also of course the point that his very contract makes it difficult to add the type of pieces we need.

Sure, his scoring is valuable. Like I said, Big Dog's scoring was valuable too. Valuable enough for us to be able to get a lottery pick and Kukoc for him after 8 seasons of great stats. I hope Redd can be as valuable to us after his 8 seasons in Milwaukee.

Your building around your core pieces and right now that is Redd, Bogut and Yi.

Now I am not about to say that I wouldn't trade Redd, because I would if the deal is right, but this place has gone completely (Please Use More Appropriate Word) when it comes to Redd.

We are not going to just trade him away for nothing and cap space. 1/2 the players in this draft are not better than him. He can't rebound or pass, yet he did pretty well (average perhaps) with his assist and rebounding stats (not saying he is good at either). He seemed to be a great addition to the best team on the planet, TEAM USA.

I guess on the court on don't see him as our problem. I see him as a great scorer who is average or below at just about everything else. I see him as a solid compliment to a good team and someone who is perfectly acceptable as part of your core.

[LUKE23]

This is what separates Westbrook and Gordon:

There are many great athletes in this year

[Wise1]

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Meh, people thought the same thing about Big Dog but trading him for a lottery pick and Kukoc worked out pretty well. Robinson had another couple of years of putting up meaningless numbers on lottery teams before tailing off rapidly and ending up out of the league. Meanwhile we got Ford who had a few solid years and ended up being a decent trade chip.

Like Big Dog most of his career, Redd's ability to put "extreme" offensive pressure on a team has never translated into any actual team success. Like Big Dog, his value is only going to go down from here.

Moving him for a lottery pick would be as much of a no-brainer as there is.

I don't know if we have an apples to apples comparison here. Robinson was a great scorer, but Redd is even better in that regard due to the diversity of his offensive game and his ability to hang fouls on opponents. Big Dog was basically a pure jump shooter and therefore easier to defend whereas Redd is unpredictable due to his diversity. Robinson was a turnover waiting to happen where Redd is about as sure handed as it gets at his position. Robinson had less than average size and strength at his position where Redd has ideal size and strength at his position.

Now I'm on record as saying that I'd trade Redd in a package for the #3 or #6 but I wouldn't give him away for a mid or late pick. Redd doesn't need quickness and athleticism to do what he does. He's more comporable to a Reggie Miller than he is to Glenn Robinson who also lived a hard life "off" of the court precipitating his early demise as a player. Redd is about as clean cut as it gets off of the court.

With a guy like Skiles at the helm, I think we'd see the Redd that put up 20/5/5's during the early stages of the season. He has his faults, but he can be a complementary piece to a winner if the Bucks decide to keep him. I wouldn't consider the offseason a failure if the Bucks failed to move Redd. I just don't want to keep Mo AND Redd. I prefer Redd over Mo.

[paulpressey25]

That Westbrook write up is a bit contradictory. Claims he's not top 20 in basketball fundamentals but has a sophisticated feel for the game. I'm not sure how a guy who has an uncanny or whatever feel for the game isn't a top 20 in skills and throws up airballs as the blurb inmplies. Or wouldn't have natural passing skills then.

I'm not knocking Westbrook as much as these write ups. Everyone gets gushing write ups like that. I'd like to hear Skiles and Hammond unedited watching these prospects play.

[emunney]

I really like Westbrook's defense, but I think top 3 perimeter defender in the league from day one -- or anything close to it -- is such a ridiculous expectation that it casts significant doubt over anything adjacent to it. Chris Reina has a serious case of the draft jollies.

[Wise1]

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Indeed and that is why so many around here want Redd traded.

No one is claiming success couldn't be had with Redd "if we had the right pieces around him": success can be had with just about ANY shooting guard if the other guys around him are good enough. That statement is meaningless as it applies to every starting SG in the NBA. However many think the idea of constructing a team by putting pieces around a SG only somewhat above average is silly. There's also of course the point that his very contract makes it difficult to add the type of pieces we need.

Sure, his scoring is valuable. Like I said, Big Dog's scoring was valuable too. Valuable enough for us to be able to get a lottery pick and Kukoc for him after 8 seasons of great stats. I hope Redd can be as valuable to us after his 8 seasons in Milwaukee.

It's not meaningless, you're just taking it to the extreme. Sure, Keyon Dooling start at 2 guard and win a title if he had Paul at the one and Kobe, Duncan and D12 in the front court.

The question revolves around whether or not you think Redd is more or less of an impact player than his peers given equal "winning" talent at the other positions on the floor. With Redd as a "role" player on a talented team with an experienced head coach, I'd say he'd be top 8 at his position (plus minus 2-3).

There's a reason why many pined for his services for the olympic qualifying team and once there, he proved to be a potent role player playing next to top tier talent. His defense was even better because he wasn't spending so much energy trying to carry the offense.

We've just seen the worst of Redd because the organization from top to bottom hasn't shown any strong leadership and the players simply played to their own tendencies with little regard for the inexperienced leader's (coaches) version of winning basketball.

[europa]

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Sure, his scoring is valuable. Like I said, Big Dog's scoring was valuable too. Valuable enough for us to be able to get a lottery pick and Kukoc for him after 8 seasons of great stats. I hope Redd can be as valuable to us after his 8 seasons in Milwaukee.

If the Bucks can trade Redd for the reigning NCAA Player of the Year who is regarded as one of the top (if not the top) player at his position in his draft and a solid, proven veteran role player I'll just ask one question:

Where do I sign up for that?

[PaBuck]

[quote="Wise1"][/quote]

Agree. Problem is not Redd. It is the combination of Redd and Mo. Absolutely need value in return for Redd. As to the draft, the Buck are a team lacking in defense with a defensive-minded GM. Westbrook is the best defender in the draft. If the Knicks and Walsh don't grab him, Hammond will.

Wise, guess she just prefers brawn over brain!

[Winter Wonder]

Clippers:
Redd for #7, Mobley, Tim Thomas and/or Brevin Knight.
Upside- we have Redd's short term replacement and in a year from now Mobley, Simmons and TT's contracts would be 27 mil worth of expirings. Also #7 and #8.
Downside- We have to take TT back.

How about a three-way trade with Minnesota?

Bucks trade: Redd, CV
Bucks get: #3 (Mayo), Mobley, TT, Madsen

Clippers trade: #7 (Lopez), Mobley, TT
Clippers get: Redd

T-Wolves trade: #3 (Mayo), Madsen
T-Wolves get: #7 (Lopez), CV

Then at #8 we could address the SF position (Alexander, Randolph, or Gallinari).

Just to not here. MN would not be very intersted in CV with Jefferson (possibly backed up by Smith) at the 4 and Brewer (and probably Gomes) manning the 3.

Now if you did trade Redd for an additional lottery pick 6-10 range (Clippers at 7 seems possible), then the #3 for the two picks would be much harder to pass up and something to work with. Similar deals had been discussed and as long as veterans and long contracts aren't going MN's way, they are probably a happy third team in any deal or a decent partner for a secondary trade with picks involved.