What If Woelful's Right?

[LUKE23]

First he is undersized for the major of SG in the NBA. He is 6'3 most are 6'5 or more.

Second the last half of the season at Indiana he was horrible. He took bad shots, had problems handling the ball, and really didn't lead his team anywhere.

I mean against Penn State he was 8 of 24. That doesn't sound like someone who is better than Michael Redd.

I think the circumstances from late January on have already been gone over several times on this forum. There were some reasons for that, it's not like he all of a sudden became bad at basketball.

[randy84]

You know that the thing with draft picks, you don't know what you are going to get. I mean would the Bucks still pick Bogut first in the draft knowing what they do now?

With Redd we know what we are getting. A lot of scoring, little passing, and less defensive.

But I am willing to bet that Redd can learn to pass and play a little defense quicker than a rookie is going to be able to pick up all the nuances of the NBA game.

And Redd will still score 20+ a night.

[smalls]

The thing with the Redd vs. Gordon argument is this:

if you don't think Gordon is going to be as good as Redd, then you basically just think Gordon can't average 24 ppg at 45% and bring little else to the table. If you think Gordon cannot do that, then I will respect that, but disagree.

Redd does nothing else even average on the floor but score, nothing.

I completely agree with ur assesment of the situation, I happen to think Redd is a very good ball player but i also think that our backcourt was the source of this teams struggles the last 2 years and some change needs to happen for us as fans not to have to go thru the crapfest that has been bucks basketball for the last 2 years. I also think that Gordon can bring some more of the intangibles to the team than redd has, but it is pure specualtion. 4 years ago i was saying the same thing with redd vs ray allen so......... i guess in the end at least change for me feels like we r being proactive in the intangible search

[randy84]

Well how about 2 of 13 against Coppin St. at the beginning of the year.

And if I remember correctly, Gordon wasn't even the best player on his team. I believe that D.J. White was the Big Ten player of the year.

[LUKE23]

Well how about 2 of 13 against Coppin St. at the beginning of the year.

And if I remember correctly, Gordon wasn't even the best player on his team. I believe that D.J. White was the Big Ten player of the year.

So now we're using one game samples for arguments? Wow. If that is the case, I can make any player in this draft a HOFer.

He shot 48% pre-injury/pre-Sampson firing. His PPS before those issues was absolutely off the charts due to how frequently he can get to the line.

[midranger]

But I am willing to bet that Redd can learn to pass and play a little defense quicker than a rookie is going to be able to pick up all the nuances of the NBA game.

I'll take that bet. How long has it been so far? 8 years?

[worthlessBucks]

You know that the thing with draft picks, you don't know what you are going to get. I mean would the Bucks still pick Bogut first in the draft knowing what they do now?

With Redd we know what we are getting. A lot of scoring, little passing, and less defensive.

But I am willing to bet that Redd can learn to pass and play a little defense quicker than a rookie is going to be able to pick up all the nuances of the NBA game.

And Redd will still score 20+ a night.

We're going on year 9 in Mike's tenure, I don't know if that's enough evidence to refute that point or not. 9 years is quite the learning curve .

[randy84]

The team has already made a huge change. They brought in a new coach whose job is to take the talent that they already have and make them better.

I just don't understand getting rid of talented NBA players for unknown players who haven't done it at the NBA level. I mean we could write a book about all the overhyped great college players who never made it in the NBA.

If the Bucks can trade Redd, Mo or CV and get a good to great player in return I am all for it. But I don't want to see another Magloire for Blake, Skinner and Ha trade just to make a trade.

[LUKE23]

The team has already made a huge change. They brought in a new coach whose job is to take the talent that they already have and make them better.

I just don't understand getting rid of talented NBA players for unknown players who haven't done it at the NBA level. I mean we could write a book about all the overhyped great college players who never made it in the NBA.

If the Bucks can trade Redd, Mo or CV and get a good to great player in return I am all for it. But I don't want to see another Magloire for Blake, Skinner and Ha trade just to make a trade.

How is that trade comparable to trading for a top 7 pick?

[europa]

But I don't want to see another Magloire for Blake, Skinner and Ha trade just to make a trade.

I miss that big goofy-lookin bastard.

[worthlessBucks]

Well how about 2 of 13 against Coppin St. at the beginning of the year.

And if I remember correctly, Gordon wasn't even the best player on his team. I believe that D.J. White was the Big Ten player of the year.

DJ was a warrior, I agree with that statement, but that doesn't mean he's the better pro prospect. DJ's injury really negated his prospects as a star NBA player. When White lost a bit of his athleticism, it really made his height that more important when you translate his game to the next level. I still believe he'll be very solid and would love it if he fell and we snagged him at 37, but I'm not holding my breath on that.

[randy84]

MFscho you make the point. Success on the college level doesn't always translate to the pro level.

[smalls]

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We're going on year 9 in Mike's tenure, I don't know if that's enough evidence to refute that point or not. 9 years is quite the learning curve .

well played sir .....................welll played

[Wise1]

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This draft is as good as last years at the top, going by the projections. How is Redd any better than Gordon, Love, etc?

Everyone can make an argument that moving Redd right now is in the team's best interest because of the size and length of his contract. I personally believe he's gone.....

However, what many here underestimate is Redd's ability to put "extreme" offensive pressure on the guy guarding him, forcing the defender to use a disproportionate amount of energy on the defensive end of the floor.

The Bucks are horrible on the defensive perimeter, but I can't recall many times where the opposing two kept up with Mike on the scoreboard (obviously there are some nights). Guys like Kobe Bryant should easily put up 35-40 points on the Bucks, but Redd's offense serves to keep him in check by keeping Kobe in defense mode.

I doubt if many of the guys (including Gordon) in this draft can pressure the defense in as many ways as Redd can: Post ups, Mid-Range, Slashing, Pull-ups off the dribble, Three point range, Drawing fouls, Converting free throws, Demanding a double (Skiles could teach the passing out of the double adn proper rotations/angles) ect..

Redd would have great value to a team that can help him improve his deficiencies. I certainly wouldn't mind the Bucks keeping him and moving Mo and CV instead. Chances are though, all three would be gone if Hammond could bring in his kind of players (featuring defensive length / skill). = Randolph & Westbrook.

[Sigra]

Ilhan, what do you know on Galinari? Please compare him to a young Kukoc.

I watch NBA more than Euro basketball this years. But let me put it this way: In early 90s people in Europe talked about who is better Kukoc or Jordan (silly us I know). Nobody compare Galinary with Kobe or Lebron.

Galinary looks like he has all skills that Kukoc had but in smaller amount. Poor man Kukoc if you want. He doesn't have expirience that Kukoc had (4 european team finals, won 3 of them, 5 finals with national team, won 3 of them) or wining mentlity and charisma that Kukoc had. But skill set is similar (only not as strong)

[NotYoAvgNBAFan]

No you got the team flat wrong!

The ones you picked are just the opposite of what I believe to be the ones who would make a play for Redd!

Minnesota is definitely a team who can trade their pick and players for Redd! Gomes, McCants, Telfair, Walker expiring?

Or something like that...I would love to have Randy Foye but that is not gonna be possible I don't think.

I'd take a flyer on Rashad McCants...and or Gomes, Antonie Walker, and the pick and be done with it...

For all you expiring contract fans out there, how's that one for you? Then draft Love or OJ Mayo at #3 and use the other pick at #8 and take Donte Greene or the Randolph kid, or Alexander?

Then grab Devon Hardin in the second round if not Brian Butch...

Maybe send Redd, Villanueva and Gadzuric?

And they have many players to offer the Bucks and that #3 pick. The Grizzlies don't need Redd with Gay...and Miller.

I say the team dying to get Redd should be Minnesota...

[trwi7]

and perhaps Ratliff's expiring?

Yes MBBOT, Minnesota is going to steal Theo Ratliff from Detroit and give him to us.

[jbone]

if we were to trade redd for a pick ahead of ours assuming we couldn;'t get mayo, what two players would you guys draft with the 8th and 5-9 range.

i am not as high on alexander or gordon as most of you so i would have to take westbrook and augustin i know i will get ripped for this one beacuse augustin and westbrook are very small and augustin is like ford 2.0, and augustin as of right now is a stretch at 8 probably as would westbrook be at the traded pick, but it is still very early in the pre draft workourts and such so who knows how well they do from here on out. i would rather take westbrook and gordon, but i want a sure passer outthere and i refuse to ahve mo as our starter next year. so unless we can trade for a passing PG i would have to consider augustin at wherever we draft and hope hes chris paul.

personally id rather trade our pick for a top pick next year whoever takers would be excluding teams like miami and chicago obviously excluding new york and L.A., and with #1 protection on the pick.

but if you guys had to draft two rookies whom would they be. personally as i stated above i would takje the #2 best passer and the best defender in the draft as oppose to taking guys that don't have any outstanding attributes.

[Licensed to Il]

if we were to trade redd for a pick ahead of ours assuming we couldn;'t get mayo, what two players would you guys draft with the 8th and 5-9 range.

It would have to be guys with veteran type attitudes. Guys like Westbrook, Bayless, Alexander, and Love who are ready to throw themselves in to a career in basketball.

Skiles can't stand guys with more potential than production. He hardly ever played Ty Thomas or Thabo Sefalosha, prefering future hall of shamers like Darius Songalia and Adrian Griffith.

I laughed at the most recent Skiles interview where he raved about how much he was in to the draft this year. Because if we get a Randolph or a Deandre Jordon type or the kid from Syracuse who are a year or two away physically... it is not going to be pretty.

Skiles is the anti-Harris when it comes to playing guys who are not ready.

[Nowak008]

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I watch NBA more than Euro basketball this years. But let me put it this way: In early 90s people in Europe talked about who is better Kukoc or Jordan (silly us I know). Nobody compare Galinary with Kobe or Lebron.

Galinary looks like he has all skills that Kukoc had but in smaller amount. Poor man Kukoc if you want. He doesn't have expirience that Kukoc had (4 european team finals, won 3 of them, 5 finals with national team, won 3 of them) or wining mentlity and charisma that Kukoc had. But skill set is similar (only not as strong)

The fact that Ilhan compared Gallinari to his favorite player means he must be pretty good.

How old was Kukoc when he entered the NBA?