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NBA Draft 2024

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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#321 » by Ghost of Kleine » Thu May 16, 2024 8:52 pm

King4Day wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
I'd love that idea man! It'd give us an awesome team! But Is Ishbia allowed to buy a pick with us being a 2nd apron team? :dontknow:

Problem is Nurk almost certainly isn't worth a lotto pick even in a weak draft.

I also asked that same question about buying picks since cash consideration isn't allowed in trades anymore.


Yea, I have a hard time seeing a team giving us value for Nurk unless offering up a similar player who is 'meh'.
Nurk was really good for us, but his flaws are known, and he'd really only be good for an up-and-coming team in need of a bruiser down low. Knowing they won't be in the playoffs/


We'd honestly HAVE TO attach our 2031 st just to get back solid value. So in a trade, just to get the 9th pick back, we'd have to attach the 2031 and take back some salary in the deal too from Memphis. Otherwise, without including the 2031, the best we could get back from the Grizzlies would maybe be a salary filler + ( Clarke)/ 39th and 57th picks. ** In this situation, I'd also ask for the Houston or OKC 25' 2nd as a small sweetener. The 25' draft is loaded and it could have value to us!

But this is also why I'd also look strongly at these two teams for Nurkic trades (IF we do trade him at all)!

1- New York
Nurkic/ 2031 1st for Robinson/McBride/ 24th and 25th picks. Then I'd trade the 24th pick and Little to Charlotte for Nik Richards/ 42nd pick!
22- Kolek.
25- Dunn.
42- Hoping Ulriche Comche falls) otherwise, I'm taking Alex Karaban or Peyton Sandfort for 3-point shooting/ Floor spacing.

2-Washington
Nurkic for Marvin Bagley or Richaun Holmes/ 26th and 51st picks. Bagley or Holmes aren't great defenders, but are mobile and long. and are somewhat decent rim protectors that can play at the 4 next to a more legit center option that we acquire in free agency? We're really just adding switchable size here and the 26th pick as an additional asset.
22- Yves Missi.
26- Ryan Dunn.
51- Quinton Post.

Undrafted pool
- NaeQwan Tomlin. 6'10 explosively athletic two-way wing/forward.
- Zion Pullin. 6'4 playmaking floor general.
- Blake Hinson. 6'8 230 lb elite 3PT shooting version of Saddiq Bey. 42% on 11 attempts per game!

Lastly, I'd immediately flip Holmes or Bagley AND the 2031 1st to Houston for Steven Adams (12 million matching salary).
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#322 » by bwgood77 » Thu May 16, 2024 11:51 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:Problem is Nurk almost certainly isn't worth a lotto pick even in a weak draft.

I also asked that same question about buying picks since cash consideration isn't allowed in trades anymore.


I think Nurk, at best, has neutral value. The only team that MIGHT consider him is a team that needs rebounding and passing and has defensive and athleticism, and just needs size. A team like Memphis, who has JJJ for defensive, rim protection, can guard inside and out, and is not a great rebounder. They got rid of Adams, and could use a guy like Nurkic for rebounding. They have a dynamic guard in Ja, defensive studs like Smart, JJJ and Clarke, and a floor spreading sharp shooter, all around solid guy in Bane.

Not sure how many other teams are kind of like this. Probably not many. Now I wouldn't expect someone good from them, but maybe a decent player and a couple 2nds. I think the best possibility would be like Brandon Clarke. Right now they have JJJ set at C and Vince Williams at PF. They desperately need rebounding...and have some great defenders.

The question would be, what do we do at C? Go small with KD and Clarke? Rebounding would be a problem, so we'd have to get a minimum guy or trade some salary for a C. But a guy like Little wouldn't get us much without much salary. Throw in a first and it helps, but we'd still have to get some guy who doesn't make a lot. Not sure who.


Solid points as always, and Slim was also on point that Nurkic would be a good fit for them too. Memphis has the 9th,39th and 57th picks. Now I do like Nurkic for his simplistic production and physicality, but I'm not too sure he could return the 9th pick even in this rather shallow draft unless we were willing to attach the 2031 1st along with him, and I honestly don't think that our front office values the draft enough to consider that! Sans the 2031 1st, I'd still push hard for the 9th pick, Not because I favor a specific talent in that round, but rather (IF we could still get it back) then we could then look to trade back in the range of the 14-18 area while picking up additional assets. Maybe with one of:

1 Portland For the 14th and 34th picks. ** Sign Bidatze in free agency, Or Joel Soriano on a two-way?
14- Missi.
22- Kolek.
34- Ryan Dunn.

2 Pels- for the 17th and 21st picks. For the 17th and 21st picks. ** Sign Bidatze in free agency, Or Joel Soriano on a two-way? (Joel Soriano is a 6'11 255 lb bulky, fluid, physical double/double machine) Listed at 255 lbs, but is closer to 265 lbs actually. He has a 15% Offensive rebounding percentage, can pass, shoot, and block shots well too.
17- Missi.
21- Kolek.
22- Dunn.

3 New York For the 24th and 25th picks (*** specifically allowing us to now flip Little/24th pick to Charlotte for Nik Richards) :wink:
22- Missi.
25- Dunn.
*Undrafted range
Zion Pullin.
The pattern I'm choosing with these prospects is their elite defensive ability that'll play to Budenholzer's defense first- switch-heavy scheme, and more importantly, because all three are not ball-dominant players and are more utility players that play off the ball (Missi/ Dunn), OR make the players around them better by assisting them (Kolek or Pullin). These players are IDEAL COMPLIMENTARY OPTIONS that'd complement our big three without taking the ball out of there hands. And also likely getting back Clarke as a salary filler whom we can play defensively at the backup three for added size, rebounding and energetic defense possibly? It'd give us a slightly bigger bench lineup too.

Then in free agency, you aggressively target Goga Bidatze to replace Nurkic, with very similar size, and similar abilities, BUT who's more mobile and more athletic! Sure Bidatze doesn't put up as big numbers as Nurkic does, But I believe that's due to playing time disparity. Also, Nurkic has 40 pounds on Bidatze, But honestly, Bidatze could probably add around 20 more pounds, and even at 270 pounds would still be more mobile and athletic than Nurkic!

Beal/ Booker/ Batum/ KD/ Bidatze.
Allen/ O'neale/ Clarke/ Muscala/ Richards.
or Lowry?
Kolek/ D Lee/ Dunn/ Bol/ Missi.
** Eubanks, Okogie, and Gordon traded for future 2nds, or they leave for other opportunities.

G League affiliate
1- Nae'Qwan Tomlin. https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/naeqwan-tomlin-1.html
2- Blake Hinson. https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/blake-hinson-1.html
3- Quinton Post. https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/quinten-post-1.html


I would just do it for the 39th, 57th and Clarke or something like that. We would need to save our other assets for a C.
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#323 » by Ghost of Kleine » Fri May 17, 2024 12:47 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
I think Nurk, at best, has neutral value. The only team that MIGHT consider him is a team that needs rebounding and passing and has defensive and athleticism, and just needs size. A team like Memphis, who has JJJ for defensive, rim protection, can guard inside and out, and is not a great rebounder. They got rid of Adams, and could use a guy like Nurkic for rebounding. They have a dynamic guard in Ja, defensive studs like Smart, JJJ and Clarke, and a floor spreading sharp shooter, all around solid guy in Bane.

Not sure how many other teams are kind of like this. Probably not many. Now I wouldn't expect someone good from them, but maybe a decent player and a couple 2nds. I think the best possibility would be like Brandon Clarke. Right now they have JJJ set at C and Vince Williams at PF. They desperately need rebounding...and have some great defenders.

The question would be, what do we do at C? Go small with KD and Clarke? Rebounding would be a problem, so we'd have to get a minimum guy or trade some salary for a C. But a guy like Little wouldn't get us much without much salary. Throw in a first and it helps, but we'd still have to get some guy who doesn't make a lot. Not sure who.


Solid points as always, and Slim was also on point that Nurkic would be a good fit for them too. Memphis has the 9th,39th and 57th picks. Now I do like Nurkic for his simplistic production and physicality, but I'm not too sure he could return the 9th pick even in this rather shallow draft unless we were willing to attach the 2031 1st along with him, and I honestly don't think that our front office values the draft enough to consider that! Sans the 2031 1st, I'd still push hard for the 9th pick, Not because I favor a specific talent in that round, but rather (IF we could still get it back) then we could then look to trade back in the range of the 14-18 area while picking up additional assets. Maybe with one of:

1 Portland For the 14th and 34th picks. ** Sign Bidatze in free agency, Or Joel Soriano on a two-way?
14- Missi.
22- Kolek.
34- Ryan Dunn.

2 Pels- for the 17th and 21st picks. For the 17th and 21st picks. ** Sign Bidatze in free agency, Or Joel Soriano on a two-way? (Joel Soriano is a 6'11 255 lb bulky, fluid, physical double/double machine) Listed at 255 lbs, but is closer to 265 lbs actually. He has a 15% Offensive rebounding percentage, can pass, shoot, and block shots well too.
17- Missi.
21- Kolek.
22- Dunn.

3 New York For the 24th and 25th picks (*** specifically allowing us to now flip Little/24th pick to Charlotte for Nik Richards) :wink:
22- Missi.
25- Dunn.
*Undrafted range
Zion Pullin.
The pattern I'm choosing with these prospects is their elite defensive ability that'll play to Budenholzer's defense first- switch-heavy scheme, and more importantly, because all three are not ball-dominant players and are more utility players that play off the ball (Missi/ Dunn), OR make the players around them better by assisting them (Kolek or Pullin). These players are IDEAL COMPLIMENTARY OPTIONS that'd complement our big three without taking the ball out of there hands. And also likely getting back Clarke as a salary filler whom we can play defensively at the backup three for added size, rebounding and energetic defense possibly? It'd give us a slightly bigger bench lineup too.

Then in free agency, you aggressively target Goga Bidatze to replace Nurkic, with very similar size, and similar abilities, BUT who's more mobile and more athletic! Sure Bidatze doesn't put up as big numbers as Nurkic does, But I believe that's due to playing time disparity. Also, Nurkic has 40 pounds on Bidatze, But honestly, Bidatze could probably add around 20 more pounds, and even at 270 pounds would still be more mobile and athletic than Nurkic!

Beal/ Booker/ Batum/ KD/ Bidatze.
Allen/ O'neale/ Clarke/ Muscala/ Richards.
or Lowry?
Kolek/ D Lee/ Dunn/ Bol/ Missi.
** Eubanks, Okogie, and Gordon traded for future 2nds, or they leave for other opportunities.

G League affiliate
1- Nae'Qwan Tomlin. https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/naeqwan-tomlin-1.html
2- Blake Hinson. https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/blake-hinson-1.html
3- Quinton Post. https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/quinten-post-1.html


I would just do it for the 39th, 57th, and Clarke or something like that. We would need to save our other assets for a C.


That's fair! I mean even though most aren't aware of what's available in the 2nd round to post-draft or don't really care anyways, but there are actually fairly solid options that just haven't gotten the same level of exposure as higher-ranked prospects. I don't look at this draft as a resource for landing star talent as much as a pretty simple and logical way to add cost-effective depth pieces with complementary skillsets/attributes.

Which centers would you consider saving our assets for in a "dollar-for-dollar" matching scenario of 18 million or less under the new CBA? I like the Nik Richards premise, BUT giving up the 2031 pick in a deal for him seems significantly lopsided in terms of value. IF we could somehow trade Nurkic, and get back a better fitting option for our needs, while also picking up another late 20s' 1st in the deal would theoretically allow us to attach that to Littles' salary in exchange for Richards and maybe the 42nd pick coming back too. But even if it's just Richards, that'd be a pretty big win for us heading into free agency.

My biggest concern that has me thinking it might just be best to wait on trading Nurkic, and instead just either draft an athletic defensive backup is because of our 2nd apron restrictions limiting us to only a few possibilities in a matching 18 million (not a dollar over) or less scenario. And those few options being limited to (in order of descending value) Mitchell Robinson, Steven Adams, Marvin Bagley, Richaun Holmes, Jock Landale and maybe 6'8 250 lb Isaiah Stewart? Of those names, really the two best options for our interests would obviously be Robinson and Adams. And honestly, with Adams, unless we attached further value, I just can't see why the rockets would downgrade to a similar but lesser and more pricey option in Nurkic. So that just leaves me with Robinson, unless we choose to keep Nurkic. Ideally, I'd pursue a Nurkic/2031 1st for Robinson/McBride/ 24th and 25th picks.

This way the Knicks who were one of the teams reported to be looking to trade out of this draft for future picks in a hopefully deeper draft, can now get a premium asset in exchange for their two late firsts. And with Hartenstein showing out in the playoffs too with Robinson out, they may finally look to move on from Robinson! BUT.............. Nurkic is ironically a perfect fit for how they play with his physicality and girth. And also with Randle being injury-prone too, Nurkic would give them another frontcourt playmaker for whenever Randle misses time again. So the deal would end up as Nurkic/2031 1st for Robinson/ McBride/24th and 25th picks. Then we immediately follow things up with a Little/ 24th pick for Richards deal. Now we'd have our starting center and backup center options completely covered even before free agency! And McBride would be a bonus as a somewhat better defensive/scoring version of Payne at 3rd rotation guard. Lastly, we can now use the 22nd and 25th picks to strengthen our depth even further!!
22- Kolek. Playmaking floor general/backup table setting guard, basically our TJ McConnell.
25- Dunn. Our version of Herb Jones/ 6'8 Matisse Thybulle that'll help lock down the perimeter and is an elite weakside rim protector/ recovery defender too. He'll be our top option to lock down the opposition's elite players like Ant, Murray, Shai, J Williams, Brunson, Harden, etc. Then you just add better shooters from the undrafted pool to develop in our G League affiliate, and maybe a bigger body center option from free agency. I still like Bidatze as a similar but more mobile and bouncy version of Nurkic?
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#324 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue May 21, 2024 1:12 am

Ryan Dunn (Elite expplosive 6'8 long, relentless lockdown multipositional defender)
https://www.si.com/nba/draft/newsfeed/2024-nba-draft-ryan-dunn-potential-as-a-generational-defender
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Ryan Dunn should be our number #1 option (IF Yves Missi doesn't fall to us. Dunn is an absolutely unbelievable explosive and dynamic lockdown defender who is long at 6'8 with a 7'1-7'2 wingspan. A relentless non-stop motor, top-shelf explosive athleticism easily playing above the rim, quick twitch recovery, relentless physicality, and elite multipositional lockdown defensive ability. His shooting isn't fully there yet to make him an offensive threat, but if you watch his mechanics and form, he's not at all far off, and once that develops, you could have an ELITE TWO WAY JUMBO WING/FORWARD!! Aside from Missi, Dunn should be our front offices' top target (TO KEEP)!!!! as he's the perfect defensive compliment for our offensive-oriented superteam. Dunn is perfect for this next generation of physical, fast, super athletic, relentless intensity NBA style of play. And honestly, I'd love seeing Dunn with his elite defensive ability lockdown and frustrate players like Anthony Edwards, Luka Doncic or Kyrie Irving, Harden, George, Murray, etc.

And IF our front office was clever enough to find a way to turn Nurkic (via trade) into BOTH Missi and Dunn, then I can quite honestly say those two could help us to a potential top 5 defense!! :nod:

Our big board should absolutely be:
1- Yves Missi.
2- Ryan Dunn.
3- Tyler Kolek.
:D
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#325 » by RedIndian » Thu May 23, 2024 9:04 am

So my draft board as of now for #22 would be as under. Focus would be on players who are ready to come in and play straight away and are well-rounded.

Guards

1. Devin Carter – favourite prospect if he drops to our range. 6’2.5 with a 6’8.5 wingspan. Incredible rebounder and shot-blocker for a guard. High energy, makes 3s both of the catch and bounce. Would fit perfectly as the third guard next to Booker and Beal and would give us toughness and edge in the mould of a Derrick White or Caruso.

2. Jared McCain – super fun prospect, with great IQ and competitiveness. Absolutely lights-out shooter, who should be a better NBA than college player with the extra spacing. Floor should be a Seth Curry type, but ceiling could be a Maxey or Quickley type player. Think he gets taken before #22 though.

3. Ajay Mitchell – Big riser in the combine. Big lefty combo guard at 6’4 with a 6’6”5 wingspan. Very smooth three level scorer, high IQ passer and his defense is surprisingly good (even though he’s not the most athletic). He’s kinda like a lefty Andrew Nembhard, who’s been a superb pick for Indiana. Should be playable in the NBA straight being a 3 year guy.

I’d be happy drafting a legit guard prospect because we need someone to rotate as our 3rd guard with Book and Beal. Gordon is likely not back, and he was disappointing this season anyway. The likes of Saben Lee won’t cut it. You could pick up the likes of Kris Dunn or Delon Wright in free agency. Maybe CP3 or Lowry even? If that happens, we probably a draft a wing or a big, but if we don’t go down that route, guard is probably the way to go in the draft. Other prospects in our range I’m not considering – Tyler Kolek, Carlton Carrington, Juan Nunez, KJ Simpson.

Kolek – I would not hate it if we picked him, because I do believe he can carve out a role for himself in the NBA given his IQ and competitiveness. However, I am less high on him since his draft measurements came out – 6’1.25 with a 6’2.5 wingpsan and a subpar 7’11 standing reach. The list of players who’ve been capable defenders in the last 20 years with a sub 8 foot standing reach ends at Chris Paul and Kyle Lowry. For reference, even Tyus Jones is at 8’1 and TJ McConnell is at 8’05. You can rely on high-iq, good positioning and smarts all you want, but when you’re that small, you’re going to be a defensive liability in the playoffs. I’ve also said previously that his first step isn’t all that great, and he’s also extremely left hand dominant on his finishes. That sort of one-dimensional play gets exposed very quickly in the NBA.

Carrington – Carrington has excellent size, and is a very capable playmaker and I think his shooting will be a lot better in the pros. But he’s still quite raw, and needs to add strength. He could hit, but higher chances that he goes down the road of someone like a Kira Lewis. Even if he does hit eventually, I suspect it’ll be after an initial few years of struggles (a bit like Nickeil-Alexander Walker)

Nunez - flat out the most special playmaker in the draft. Tremendous craft, touch, vision with the ball in his hands – like I’m talking Rubio, Luka level passing IQ. But the shooting touch is suspect (58% from the FT line, very streaky from 3). Plus, he’s a bit pudgy and a terrible defender. Shooting will be his swing skill. If he’s a credible shooter in the NBA, his entire outlook changes – we’ll be looking at a special offensive player. If he can’t shoot, then he’d be basically like a Rubio, but with terrible defense. At that point, can’t see him surviving in the NBA.

KJ Simpson – Talented offensive player, who does a bit of everything, but just too small. Wouldn’t draft.


Small Wings (2/3s)


1. Jaylon Tyson – Fwiw, the small-wing archetype is not something I’d go for. We have too many SGs on the roster, and we should either get a proper guard, a big wing or a true big. But if we were to hypothetically go down this route, Tyson would be my first pick at #22. Very well rounded guy, who’s athletic, strong and does a bunch of stuff well. Could see him being a Dillon Brooks or Caleb Martin type.

2. Pelle Larsson – Think he’ll be a very solid pro. His shooting should translate, but what I like most about him is that he’s pretty strong. Should be able to bump his chest against bigger wings and play reasonable defense in the playoffs. Max Strus type.

3. Hunter Sallis – Another well-rounded guy who does a bunch of stuff well. Keon Ellis’ success with the Kings this season shows that this archetype can carve out a nice role in the NBA.

Big Wings (3/4s)


1. Tristan Da Silva – Kyle Kuzma-lite, who has terrific size at 6’9. Super shooter (39% from 3 over the last 2 seasons). 4 year pro, who has a mostly NBA ready body, can handle the ball in the PnR, make shots from deep and can get to the rim on his own. Offensively, he is ready to contribute as a role player in the NBA straight away. You could have him come off the bench, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he averaged 10 points as a rookie in 20 odd mins. Defensively, I think he is not going to be a stopper. Lacks elite level strength or explosiveness, but at 6’9, his size alone should mean he’s a solid defender. He’s a smart player, so he’ll figure that out I would think.

2. Tyler Smith – Still a very young and raw prospect, but at 6’10 with a 7’1, smooth athleticism and a gorgeous shooting stroke, the tools are simply too nice for him to be a dud. Guy will shoot, get to the rim, block shots from day 1. I do expect growing pains when it comes to defense (too stiff on the perimeter, too weak on the inside), struggles with team defense concepts, and turnovers. BUT there is enough in there that there will be contributions from day 1, and if he develops well, he’ll be a starting calibre NBA four by his 2nd or 3rd year.

3. Jalen Bridges – High-floor role player with excellent size (6’8) who defends and shoots. Shouldn’t expect much more than a 3nD profile though.

This is an excellent archetype for us to draft, because we need good playable wings. Da Silva and Smith should be both be in our draft range. I’d expect Ryan Dunn, Bobi Klintman and Johnny Furphy to also be available at #22, but I have some reservations about all of them.

Dunn – I love Dunn. I think he’s the best defender in the class with tremendous tenacity AND athleticism. But his offense is so egregiously bad, I simply can’t envision him being playable unless he dramatically re-works his shot. There’s a non-zero chance that happens, but I simply don’t think we’re in a position to draft a player that doesn’t pan out. We need to hit with our pick, so I’d avoid Dunn for that reason.

Klintman - Similar to Tyler Smith in that he’s young and raw and has shooting potential, but I just think Smith is better. Klintman’s motor runs hot and cold, while Smith’s seems more consistent, so I’d back him more as a prospect.

Furphy - Would have probably been higher on Furphy at the start of the year than any of the others, but his shooting dipped, and it’s painfully obvious that his body isn’t NBA ready yet. Needs to put on significant strength and muscle before he can contribute at the NBA level. Decent chance that might happen, and he ends up being the best of these players, but the risk of drafting a project is too high.


Bigs


1. DaRon Holmes – At #22, probably the safest big to draft in terms of immediate impact. Measured at 6’9 with a 7’1 wingspan and 9’0 standing reach. Not true center size, but that’s not his archetype anyway. He’s more of a Naz Reid, Taj Gibson, Bobby Portis type 4/5 hybrid. Someone who excels in a first big off the bench role. He will be super productive as he does a bit of everything – rim running, shooting threes, reasonably competent in short roll passing, push shot plus switchable, shot-blocking presence as well. Will struggle at defending true NBA fives like Jokic or Embiid (who doesn’t?), but will most be able to hang with the average NBA center. Arizona kid too, with a great motor and character. Drafting him should be a no-brainer.

2. Yves Missi – Missi’s measurements are virtually identical to Nic Claxton’s (6’11 with a 7’2 wingspan and a 9’1.5 wingspan), and that’s his player archetype. Superb athlete who moves quickly across the floor and has an explosive and smooth jump. Only issue is that like Claxton, he’s a twig and will struggle with the physicality of the NBA early on. Claxton took till year 3 to be actually productive (and he was a 2-year college guy). Expect the same from Missi. He also needs to improve from the line, and learn to finish through contact (struggles with this currently). There’s high potential with him, but he’s going to be a bit of a project. I don’t see him helping in next year’s playoffs at all, for instance.

3. Zach Edey – I’d reluctantly draft Edey if Holmes and Missi were off the board, and I’d had to draft a big. Edey is too big, too competitive and with a reasonably high base level of skill, that he’d be a complete dud in the NBA. He’ll be able to carve out some role, but he needs to embrace being a dirt worker like Zubac if he really wants to succeed. He’s not skilled enough that the offense will run through him like it did in college (even for a bench role). He needs to embrace being an absolute bruiser, who sets bone crushing screens, punishes mismatches, and absolute outrebounds a team on his own. If he embraces that role, he’ll be a valuable (maybe starting) center in the NBA. Quicker players will undoubtedly kill him in space and on switches – that’s par for the course when you’re 7’4, 300 pounds, but if he maximises his strengths, he can be valuable. I’m not sure he’s the best fit for what we need though, so I’d frankly rather pass on him if push came to shove.

The bigs in our range who I’d avoid are Ke’lel Ware and Filipowski:

Ware – Ware has the perfect athletic tools – 7’0 with 7’4.5 wingspan. Terrific athlete with a shooting stroke out to 3 and shot-blocking skills. Unfortunately, he has a pathetic motor and is a low IQ player, and there is rarely a cure for that. He’d probably put up good counting stats, but end with a Christian Wood type of impact. Avoid him completely, no matter how tantalising.

Filipowksi – Sub-par wingspan and some injury history means we should avoid. Has a reasonably high base level of skill – can shoot, pass and block shots. High-end outcome is a more athletic Kelly Olynyk, but equally could be a Kaminsky-type third stringer.
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#326 » by bwgood77 » Thu May 23, 2024 5:08 pm

RedIndian wrote:So my draft board as of now for #22 would be as under. Focus would be on players who are ready to come in and play straight away and are well-rounded.

Guards

1. Devin Carter – favourite prospect if he drops to our range. 6’2.5 with a 6’8.5 wingspan. Incredible rebounder and shot-blocker for a guard. High energy, makes 3s both of the catch and bounce. Would fit perfectly as the third guard next to Booker and Beal and would give us toughness and edge in the mould of a Derrick White or Caruso.

2. Jared McCain – super fun prospect, with great IQ and competitiveness. Absolutely lights-out shooter, who should be a better NBA than college player with the extra spacing. Floor should be a Seth Curry type, but ceiling could be a Maxey or Quickley type player. Think he gets taken before #22 though.

3. Ajay Mitchell – Big riser in the combine. Big lefty combo guard at 6’4 with a 6’6”5 wingspan. Very smooth three level scorer, high IQ passer and his defense is surprisingly good (even though he’s not the most athletic). He’s kinda like a lefty Andrew Nembhard, who’s been a superb pick for Indiana. Should be playable in the NBA straight being a 3 year guy.

I’d be happy drafting a legit guard prospect because we need someone to rotate as our 3rd guard with Book and Beal. Gordon is likely not back, and he was disappointing this season anyway. The likes of Saben Lee won’t cut it. You could pick up the likes of Kris Dunn or Delon Wright in free agency. Maybe CP3 or Lowry even? If that happens, we probably a draft a wing or a big, but if we don’t go down that route, guard is probably the way to go in the draft. Other prospects in our range I’m not considering – Tyler Kolek, Carlton Carrington, Juan Nunez, KJ Simpson.

Kolek – I would not hate it if we picked him, because I do believe he can carve out a role for himself in the NBA given his IQ and competitiveness. However, I am less high on him since his draft measurements came out – 6’1.25 with a 6’2.5 wingpsan and a subpar 7’11 standing reach. The list of players who’ve been capable defenders in the last 20 years with a sub 8 foot standing reach ends at Chris Paul and Kyle Lowry. For reference, even Tyus Jones is at 8’1 and TJ McConnell is at 8’05. You can rely on high-iq, good positioning and smarts all you want, but when you’re that small, you’re going to be a defensive liability in the playoffs. I’ve also said previously that his first step isn’t all that great, and he’s also extremely left hand dominant on his finishes. That sort of one-dimensional play gets exposed very quickly in the NBA.

Carrington – Carrington has excellent size, and is a very capable playmaker and I think his shooting will be a lot better in the pros. But he’s still quite raw, and needs to add strength. He could hit, but higher chances that he goes down the road of someone like a Kira Lewis. Even if he does hit eventually, I suspect it’ll be after an initial few years of struggles (a bit like Nickeil-Alexander Walker)

Nunez - flat out the most special playmaker in the draft. Tremendous craft, touch, vision with the ball in his hands – like I’m talking Rubio, Luka level passing IQ. But the shooting touch is suspect (58% from the FT line, very streaky from 3). Plus, he’s a bit pudgy and a terrible defender. Shooting will be his swing skill. If he’s a credible shooter in the NBA, his entire outlook changes – we’ll be looking at a special offensive player. If he can’t shoot, then he’d be basically like a Rubio, but with terrible defense. At that point, can’t see him surviving in the NBA.

KJ Simpson – Talented offensive player, who does a bit of everything, but just too small. Wouldn’t draft.


Small Wings (2/3s)


1. Jaylon Tyson – Fwiw, the small-wing archetype is not something I’d go for. We have too many SGs on the roster, and we should either get a proper guard, a big wing or a true big. But if we were to hypothetically go down this route, Tyson would be my first pick at #22. Very well rounded guy, who’s athletic, strong and does a bunch of stuff well. Could see him being a Dillon Brooks or Caleb Martin type.

2. Pelle Larsson – Think he’ll be a very solid pro. His shooting should translate, but what I like most about him is that he’s pretty strong. Should be able to bump his chest against bigger wings and play reasonable defense in the playoffs. Max Strus type.

3. Hunter Sallis – Another well-rounded guy who does a bunch of stuff well. Keon Ellis’ success with the Kings this season shows that this archetype can carve out a nice role in the NBA.

Big Wings (3/4s)


1. Tristan Da Silva – Kyle Kuzma-lite, who has terrific size at 6’9. Super shooter (39% from 3 over the last 2 seasons). 4 year pro, who has a mostly NBA ready body, can handle the ball in the PnR, make shots from deep and can get to the rim on his own. Offensively, he is ready to contribute as a role player in the NBA straight away. You could have him come off the bench, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he averaged 10 points as a rookie in 20 odd mins. Defensively, I think he is not going to be a stopper. Lacks elite level strength or explosiveness, but at 6’9, his size alone should mean he’s a solid defender. He’s a smart player, so he’ll figure that out I would think.

2. Tyler Smith – Still a very young and raw prospect, but at 6’10 with a 7’1, smooth athleticism and a gorgeous shooting stroke, the tools are simply too nice for him to be a dud. Guy will shoot, get to the rim, block shots from day 1. I do expect growing pains when it comes to defense (too stiff on the perimeter, too weak on the inside), struggles with team defense concepts, and turnovers. BUT there is enough in there that there will be contributions from day 1, and if he develops well, he’ll be a starting calibre NBA four by his 2nd or 3rd year.

3. Jalen Bridges – High-floor role player with excellent size (6’8) who defends and shoots. Shouldn’t expect much more than a 3nD profile though.

This is an excellent archetype for us to draft, because we need good playable wings. Da Silva and Smith should be both be in our draft range. I’d expect Ryan Dunn, Bobi Klintman and Johnny Furphy to also be available at #22, but I have some reservations about all of them.

Dunn – I love Dunn. I think he’s the best defender in the class with tremendous tenacity AND athleticism. But his offense is so egregiously bad, I simply can’t envision him being playable unless he dramatically re-works his shot. There’s a non-zero chance that happens, but I simply don’t think we’re in a position to draft a player that doesn’t pan out. We need to hit with our pick, so I’d avoid Dunn for that reason.

Klintman - Similar to Tyler Smith in that he’s young and raw and has shooting potential, but I just think Smith is better. Klintman’s motor runs hot and cold, while Smith’s seems more consistent, so I’d back him more as a prospect.

Furphy - Would have probably been higher on Furphy at the start of the year than any of the others, but his shooting dipped, and it’s painfully obvious that his body isn’t NBA ready yet. Needs to put on significant strength and muscle before he can contribute at the NBA level. Decent chance that might happen, and he ends up being the best of these players, but the risk of drafting a project is too high.


Bigs


1. DaRon Holmes – At #22, probably the safest big to draft in terms of immediate impact. Measured at 6’9 with a 7’1 wingspan and 9’0 standing reach. Not true center size, but that’s not his archetype anyway. He’s more of a Naz Reid, Taj Gibson, Bobby Portis type 4/5 hybrid. Someone who excels in a first big off the bench role. He will be super productive as he does a bit of everything – rim running, shooting threes, reasonably competent in short roll passing, push shot plus switchable, shot-blocking presence as well. Will struggle at defending true NBA fives like Jokic or Embiid (who doesn’t?), but will most be able to hang with the average NBA center. Arizona kid too, with a great motor and character. Drafting him should be a no-brainer.

2. Yves Missi – Missi’s measurements are virtually identical to Nic Claxton’s (6’11 with a 7’2 wingspan and a 9’1.5 wingspan), and that’s his player archetype. Superb athlete who moves quickly across the floor and has an explosive and smooth jump. Only issue is that like Claxton, he’s a twig and will struggle with the physicality of the NBA early on. Claxton took till year 3 to be actually productive (and he was a 2-year college guy). Expect the same from Missi. He also needs to improve from the line, and learn to finish through contact (struggles with this currently). There’s high potential with him, but he’s going to be a bit of a project. I don’t see him helping in next year’s playoffs at all, for instance.

3. Zach Edey – I’d reluctantly draft Edey if Holmes and Missi were off the board, and I’d had to draft a big. Edey is too big, too competitive and with a reasonably high base level of skill, that he’d be a complete dud in the NBA. He’ll be able to carve out some role, but he needs to embrace being a dirt worker like Zubac if he really wants to succeed. He’s not skilled enough that the offense will run through him like it did in college (even for a bench role). He needs to embrace being an absolute bruiser, who sets bone crushing screens, punishes mismatches, and absolute outrebounds a team on his own. If he embraces that role, he’ll be a valuable (maybe starting) center in the NBA. Quicker players will undoubtedly kill him in space and on switches – that’s par for the course when you’re 7’4, 300 pounds, but if he maximises his strengths, he can be valuable. I’m not sure he’s the best fit for what we need though, so I’d frankly rather pass on him if push came to shove.

The bigs in our range who I’d avoid are Ke’lel Ware and Filipowski:

Ware – Ware has the perfect athletic tools – 7’0 with 7’4.5 wingspan. Terrific athlete with a shooting stroke out to 3 and shot-blocking skills. Unfortunately, he has a pathetic motor and is a low IQ player, and there is rarely a cure for that. He’d probably put up good counting stats, but end with a Christian Wood type of impact. Avoid him completely, no matter how tantalising.

Filipowksi – Sub-par wingspan and some injury history means we should avoid. Has a reasonably high base level of skill – can shoot, pass and block shots. High-end outcome is a more athletic Kelly Olynyk, but equally could be a Kaminsky-type third stringer.


In regards to Kolek, where was Nash at standing reach? I know he wasn't a capable defender, but his offense and how he made other players better was obviously elite.

I don't see many real difference makers in this draft, so being great on one side of the ball and making an impact for teammates may trump defensive deficiencies. Plus I've read he's an underrated defender. Anyway, given he averaged more assists and better 3 pt shooting than Nash in their last years, it's hard to pass up that possible upside.

I do think anyone in this draft could bust, but I think high IQ, solid shooting and passing all translate well, and having guys like Booker, Beal and KD to pass too, plus Allen just makes it that much easier.

Also, I don't think PG defense is what makes great defenses, or THAT big of an impact. We need a rim protector...a guy in the middle. And maybe a great wing defender (though KD is solid as is O'Neale if we keep him).

But the need for a high IQ PG who is first off the bench when Beal comes out quickly, then the other guys rotate as we keep two on the floor until the end of the game, I think would help a great deal. We don't really have that extra guard ball handler to throw in there.....and high IQ cannot be understated.
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#327 » by Djedefre » Fri May 24, 2024 8:02 am

I do not like Carter at all. Really think we shouldn't try to reinvent the wheel, at #22 Kolek is the most obvious and logical choice. He could bust, ofc, but there is so much sense in rolling the dice on him.
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#328 » by Puff » Fri May 24, 2024 8:36 am

We need to get a rebounding SOB with a mean streak to set the tone. We are far too nice.

GOK's choice of Dunn is interesting.

Where we get him, I really do not care. From another team or the draft. I think we will end up with a back-up point guard as well.
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#329 » by Crives » Fri May 24, 2024 11:59 pm

Yves seems way to small to guard the good bigs.

I like the idea of Dunn, is he a better defender than Okogie?

I like Kole’s but wonder if JJ will consider after Ty Jerome.

Edey feels like the no brainer pick if available.
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#330 » by MrMiyagi » Sat May 25, 2024 1:59 am

We're picking Bronny James. LBJ is going to be whispering in Jones's ear and get it done.
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#331 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sat May 25, 2024 3:26 am

MrMiyagi wrote:We're picking Bronny James. LBJ is going to be whispering in Jones's ear and get it done.

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Lebron and Jones having a meeting in the offseason with Lebron about to bring up Bronny as a favor to an old friend! :lol:
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#332 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sat May 25, 2024 3:52 am

Crives wrote:Yves seems way to small to guard the good bigs.
- Actually, he's about 6'11, long, very fast, and vertically explosive with a non-stop motor! His length, speed, and explosive athleticism make him an elite shot-blocker that's able to guard on the perimeter, in the drop, or around the rim. Also, He'd be our backup option IF we keep Nurkic to give us a more athletic, quick, and switchable center option in specific matchups.

I like the idea of Dunn, is he a better defender than Okogie?
- Dunn is an absolutely ELITE multipositional defender with size, length, elite speed, vertical burst, and a relentless motor. Most scouts or basketball gurus would tell you he'll be highly impactful from the jump with 1st team all defensive potential and could be a generational defender. His defense is simply so dynamic and elite that he impacts games on a major level. To shore up our weaknesses, either Dunn or Missi (IF he somehow fell to us should be our top 2 options as they're the ideal elite lockdown compliments to our offense-heavy team.

I like Kole’s but wonder if JJ will consider after Ty Jerome.
You might be very right about this man! But hopefully they'll strongly consider a Big or Dunn for elite multipositional defense, and then go with a guard option from free agency. But if they go "Bronny." then they're not truly serious about trying to contend! .

Edey feels like the no-brainer pick if available.
I would mostly agree with you here, but currently, he's actually climbing into the late teen ranges post-combine showout!
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#333 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sat May 25, 2024 4:09 am

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This is a million percent the most important thing we could possibly do both through free agency and the draft if possible!!
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#334 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sat May 25, 2024 4:30 am

Read on Twitter

:lol:
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#335 » by Son of Ra » Sat May 25, 2024 7:36 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Read on Twitter

:lol:

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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#336 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sat May 25, 2024 4:33 pm

Son of Ra wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Read on Twitter

:lol:

"The league of extraordinary old gentlemen"

:lol: ................................ :cry: ............................... :banghead: ................................ :-?
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#337 » by Crives » Sat May 25, 2024 8:52 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Crives wrote:Yves seems way to small to guard the good bigs.
- Actually, he's about 6'11, long, very fast, and vertically explosive with a non-stop motor! His length, speed, and explosive athleticism make him an elite shot-blocker that's able to guard on the perimeter, in the drop, or around the rim. Also, He'd be our backup option IF we keep Nurkic to give us a more athletic, quick, and switchable center option in specific matchups.

I like the idea of Dunn, is he a better defender than Okogie?
- Dunn is an absolutely ELITE multipositional defender with size, length, elite speed, vertical burst, and a relentless motor. Most scouts or basketball gurus would tell you he'll be highly impactful from the jump with 1st team all defensive potential and could be a generational defender. His defense is simply so dynamic and elite that he impacts games on a major level. To shore up our weaknesses, either Dunn or Missi (IF he somehow fell to us should be our top 2 options as they're the ideal elite lockdown compliments to our offense-heavy team.

I like Kole’s but wonder if JJ will consider after Ty Jerome.
You might be very right about this man! But hopefully they'll strongly consider a Big or Dunn for elite multipositional defense, and then go with a guard option from free agency. But if they go "Bronny." then they're not truly serious about trying to contend! .

Edey feels like the no-brainer pick if available.
I would mostly agree with you here, but currently, he's actually climbing into the late teen ranges post-combine showout!


Yves is only 15lbs heavier than Dunn! He’s going to get destroyed by most centers.
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#338 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sat May 25, 2024 9:41 pm

Crives wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Crives wrote:Yves seems way to small to guard the good bigs.
- Actually, he's about 6'11, long, very fast, and vertically explosive with a non-stop motor! His length, speed, and explosive athleticism make him an elite shot-blocker that's able to guard on the perimeter, in the drop, or around the rim. Also, He'd be our backup option IF we keep Nurkic to give us a more athletic, quick, and switchable center option in specific matchups.

I like the idea of Dunn, is he a better defender than Okogie?
- Dunn is an absolutely ELITE multipositional defender with size, length, elite speed, vertical burst, and a relentless motor. Most scouts or basketball gurus would tell you he'll be highly impactful from the jump with 1st team all defensive potential and could be a generational defender. His defense is simply so dynamic and elite that he impacts games on a major level. To shore up our weaknesses, either Dunn or Missi (IF he somehow fell to us should be our top 2 options as they're the ideal elite lockdown compliments to our offense-heavy team.

I like Kole’s but wonder if JJ will consider after Ty Jerome.
You might be very right about this man! But hopefully they'll strongly consider a Big or Dunn for elite multipositional defense, and then go with a guard option from free agency. But if they go "Bronny." then they're not truly serious about trying to contend! .

Edey feels like the no-brainer pick if available.
I would mostly agree with you here, but currently, he's actually climbing into the late teen ranges post-combine showout!


Yves is only 15lbs heavier than Dunn! He’s going to get destroyed by most centers.


I get that he's lanky and with a thin frame, But it's important to consider a couple of things here man:

1- Missi at 235 lbs is the same weight as similar successful NBA defensive centers such as Daniel Gafford, Derek Lively, Jarrett Allen, Nik Claxton, and Richuan Holmes. All of those centers have been successful in their NBA roles. Players like Gafford and Lively have shown also that being at that weight range doesn't necessarily mean you'll get destroyed by bigger centers as obviously, they're having quite a bit of success against larger centers like Gobert, and KAT both bigger and heavier 7' footers.

2- Missis' role wouldn't be as a banger against bigger, girthier centers. But his ultimate value to us will be in what we lack currently with Nurkic as with Missi, you have a much quicker, more athletic very switchable option with much better defensive recovery ability and weakside rim protection than what Nurkic could provide against quicker and more athletic centers.

3- He's young, but can obviously still bulk up a bit as well as get stronger in a professional NBA training program. He has the tools, length, quick twitch athleticism, and relentless motor to be an elite switchable defensive 5 option.

*** I do love Dunn though as he's an absolute game-changer defensively with 1st team all defensive ability/potential and a generational defender ceiling outcome! I'd be super happy IF our front office was smart enough to take him at 22. Rally, I'd be cool with either Missi or Dunn at 22, But if I had to choose between the two somehow, I'd probably choose Dunn!!! :nod:
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#339 » by Crives » Sun May 26, 2024 9:47 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Crives wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:


Yves is only 15lbs heavier than Dunn! He’s going to get destroyed by most centers.


I get that he's lanky and with a thin frame, But it's important to consider a couple of things here man:

1- Missi at 235 lbs is the same weight as similar successful NBA defensive centers such as Daniel Gafford, Derek Lively, Jarrett Allen, Nik Claxton, and Richuan Holmes. All of those centers have been successful in their NBA roles. Players like Gafford and Lively have shown also that being at that weight range doesn't necessarily mean you'll get destroyed by bigger centers as obviously, they're having quite a bit of success against larger centers like Gobert, and KAT both bigger and heavier 7' footers.

2- Missis' role wouldn't be as a banger against bigger, girthier centers. But his ultimate value to us will be in what we lack currently with Nurkic as with Missi, you have a much quicker, more athletic very switchable option with much better defensive recovery ability and weakside rim protection than what Nurkic could provide against quicker and more athletic centers.

3- He's young, but can obviously still bulk up a bit as well as get stronger in a professional NBA training program. He has the tools, length, quick twitch athleticism, and relentless motor to be an elite switchable defensive 5 option.

*** I do love Dunn though as he's an absolute game-changer defensively with 1st team all defensive ability/potential and a generational defender ceiling outcome! I'd be super happy IF our front office was smart enough to take him at 22. Rally, I'd be cool with either Missi or Dunn at 22, But if I had to choose between the two somehow, I'd probably choose Dunn!!! :nod:


From what I have read the interesting part of yves is the athleticism and switchability.. nothing else seems special (passing, shooting, defensive instincts).. makes me worry that once he adds weight for nba body we are basically looking at another Eubanks.

On bronny front…. We should definitely be sending all the smoke signals that we taking him at 22…. Try and push lakers to draft him at 17 to increase odds someone falls to us.
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#340 » by Crives » Tue May 28, 2024 1:26 am

Ghost what do you think of Hunter Sallis? Looks like elite shooting + elite athleticism with a handle. Feels like a JJ guy. Wonder why he isn’t mocked higher

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